Comments on Carey's Ramblings: THE CRITIQUE RELATIONSHIP

Lenora, hugs and congrats on your NANO success! I'...

2007-12-13T21:22:00.000-08:00

Lenora, hugs and congrats on your NANO success! I'm thrilled for you and can't wait to see the final product.

Darcy, have missed you! Am heading over soon to the Maven's blog to catch up on your sage advice over there. Do come to Desert Dreams! Everyone! Why wait for San Fran when we can all get together in April? And it's gonna be a helluva conference

Fabulous, fabulous post, India!!!! Like you, I fee...

2007-12-13T14:37:00.000-08:00

Fabulous, fabulous post, India!!!! Like you, I feel so fortunate to have found great CPs. They are more than just writing partners, they are my closest friends. And even though they live far away (okay, one further than the other), I got to see them both last month and will see them again next month. How lucky am I??

I'm mulling Desert Dreams, but not sure if I can make it...will drop you a note about that soon. :-)

Hi India, I agree with Elyssa, you should submit t...

2007-12-06T13:13:00.000-08:00

Hi India, I agree with Elyssa, you should submit this post somewhere (maybe RWA National magazine?) because it's a very thoughtful and informative explanation of critique relationships.

I'm looking for another CP right now, and even though I agree with you that writing in the same sub genre is not that important, at this stage I would love to find someone who is writing post-regency historical romance, for the simple reason that I think we could help each other with historical accuracy.

Thanks for a great post!

Elyssa, you are so right about honesty and support...

2007-12-04T06:16:00.000-08:00

Elyssa, you are so right about honesty and support. If you can't trust your CP to tell you what they REALLY think, as well as to have your best interests in mind the relationship is doomed.

I think it is friendship that cements a good CP relationship, even though that is something that ususally grows and develops as time progresses.

Gillian and Alice, thanks for your comments! Alice, that brings up another important point. It's not just what your CP brings to the table, it's also what you bring. An open mind, and a willingness to grow as a writer being crucial.

blush

2007-12-03T16:58:00.000-08:00

*blush*

You make several excellent points. I think where ...

2007-12-03T16:57:00.000-08:00

You make several excellent points. I think where it comes to the quesiton of talking back about the critique the rule is generally intended for new writers who have not yet accepted that their work is going to have to stand on its own at some point. They tend to argue right off, rather than have a dialogue in which they are truly seeking understanding.

India, this is a really great blog and you need to...

2007-12-03T14:31:00.000-08:00

India, this is a really great blog and you need to submit it--somewhere.

I agree with you 100%--it's important to find people that you mesh with. Can I just say on a side note how insanely jealous that you all three are CPs... I've been able to read two of your mss and have been promised CM's when she finishes. *g*

But the main reason I get along with my CP so well is that we're both very similar in personalities... she's honest and will push me to soemthing better. We'll e-mail each other our pages or partials but unfailiingly she's honest and supportive.

Without those two things, being a CP is doomed to failure.

I've been part of a CP that's somewhat fallen apart mainly because there's no one submitting and people kind of slacked off (this isn't the right word/phrase at all but it's all what I could think of) when it came down to critiques.

Well, folks you heard it! Renee Lynn Scott needs a...

2007-12-03T13:46:00.000-08:00

Well, folks you heard it! Renee Lynn Scott needs a CP. Hop on over to her blog and chat her up if you're looking for one too.

As for what she brings to the CP relationship, she and I occasionally critique for each other, and I can tell you she is quick, and supportive and has great ideas. In fact a couple of my favorite lines in chapter 5 of Twist are courtesy of a Renee Lynn Scott critique. I'm sure she doesn't remember them, but they involve the back pockets of my hero's Levi Jeans and the real estate market for locker locations in med school.

Great post, India!I have to say that I've truly ad...

2007-12-03T10:42:00.000-08:00

Great post, India!

I have to say that I've truly admired your CP relationship, so much so that not too long ago I blogged an advertisement for CP's.

All the things you listed are all the things I'm looking for in that tight knit group. I think it is vital to my own writing.

The downside of it is, I'm not sure what I bring to the relationship. I'm still in the learning process of how things work as far as plot, motivations, etc. But I'm getting there.

Thanks for such a great post.

Love these words of wisdom, India...:)

2007-12-03T09:19:00.000-08:00

Love these words of wisdom, India...:)

Oh, Laurie, hi! Thanks for stopping by. For those ...

2007-12-03T08:47:00.000-08:00

Oh, Laurie, hi! Thanks for stopping by. For those of you who don't know her, Laurie is an author who in addition to publishing many fab romances, is a nationally sought after speaker on writing. I've heard great things about her book: Believable Characters: Creating with Enneagrams. I've added her to my blogroll if you want to check out her website and books.

Laurie will also be speaking at the DESERT DREAMS conference in Phoenix this April. I'll be there, and I'd encourage any of you who are interested to sign up for the conference before Dec. 31st in order to get the discount.

What a great editorial on critique groups -- I'm g...

2007-12-03T07:33:00.000-08:00

What a great editorial on critique groups -- I'm going to bookmark it for everyone who asks "what should I know about finding a critique buddy?"

And, boy, the Virgin Readers idea is SO true...over the years I wound up with 15 people I could ask for reads (and vice versa) and always saved half for the later stages of the book, when the earlier readers were too enmeshed in the work.

The other advantage of having a lot of potential critiquers (aside from getting to read a lot of great stories) is that nobody's under any pressure to deliver. All my friends know that if they're too busy for a read, it's not gonna be a problem because someone else WILL have time.

I should add that it took ten years to develop that circle...but it's a great goal to keep in mind!

Bwa. Simon, India? You?? LOL. I think CM has th...

2007-12-02T21:02:00.000-08:00

Bwa. Simon, India? You?? LOL. I think CM has the arrangement down.

Maybe I will be the dog in the middle, so I can get all the warm, fuzzy love from both sides. :)

You guys are the best. Big, drooly licks to you both. (you know how we big dogs are)

Oh wait - if I'm the big dawg, does that mean I'm Randy?

I'm Simon, I tell you! And LOL over everyone picki...

2007-12-02T20:22:00.000-08:00

I'm Simon, I tell you! And LOL over everyone picking a dog. Hey, did you guys ever see that movie, "Dog Fight" with River Phoenix? It was awesome.

Yes, I'll admit to scene and line envy. Both of you make me horribly jealous. But that's motivation for me to improve.

Love this post, India!In some ways, I think that a...

2007-12-02T20:10:00.000-08:00

Love this post, India!

In some ways, I think that a good critique relationship is like a good romance. Note, not the ones we read and write about--those have way to much conflict.

But it has to start with a certain amount of zing and attraction. And shortly after that, you need to start building up serious respect. I don't think it would be possible to have a great critique relationship with people whose work you didn't respect. Publication status probably doesn't matter, but if you constantly think that someone's doing stuff that's beneath you, I don't think it would be a good relationship.

It takes a lot of work to make the relationship work, but when it does work, it takes everything you put into it and turns it back into a thousand-fold return.

In the end, I think a great critique relationship is just another kind of good old fashioned love.

Tessa, I'm pretty sure neither of us is Paula. I think we may trade off on Randy and Simon from time to time. But I am obviously the brown-and-white dog on the far right.

Thanks to both of you!

India, I don't think I could add a thing! What a ...

2007-12-02T19:48:00.000-08:00

India, I don't think I could add a thing! What a great post (or outline for a future workshop..?)

At first, I was trying to figure out who I am in the Paula-Randy-Simon assemblage (well, I know which of the three I'm not!) Then I started trying to figure out which of the dogs I am in that picture... LOL.

I guess maybe one thing to add is, as with any close relationship: expect some degree of inevitable conflict. *wink* But also expect to work through it.

And although geographic proximity isn't everything, I do think it would be harder to critique with someone I've never met in person. I love it that we get together a every once in a while, just to bond and talk things through.

Definitely with you on the importance of arguing/discussing further. That's where most of the helpful feedback comes, IMO. Because even a CP giving her honest reaction may not be able to easily put her finger on exactly what is causing that reaction - and talking it through in a group usually yields the most helpful suggestions.

I second the importance of virgin and beta readers. The three of us talk about our group a lot, but the truth is each of us has other CPs that we exchange with occasionally, to get that fresh perspective.

And - let's be honest - as happy as we are for each others' successes, a smidgen of competitive spirit doesn't hurt. I love it that both you and CM routinely come up with lines and scenes that make me horribly envious, because that pushes me to write better.